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Monday, April 27, 2009

Recent comments to "What Not To Do During Sefirah - The Real Story"

It would seem disingenuous to quote Reb Moshe Feinstein on the recorded music issue. It is true that he felt that - at the very least - we should refrain from music in Sefira, but that was only as an extension to his overarching opposition to recorded music. Inasmuch as Joe Frummie has not accepted Reb Moshe’s overarching ruling at all (even as a chumra), it seems unreasonable to quote him at all on this issue.

By Al on 2009 04 27

AI -
The overall ban on music is not something that was R’ Moshe’s creations it is a Tosfos in Meseches Gittin and it is “g’paskined” in Shulchan Aruch שולחן ערוך אורח חיים הלכות תשעה באב ושאר תעניות סימן תקס

סעיף ג
וכן גזרו (יא) שלא לנגן בכלי שיר וכל מיני זמר וכל משמיעי קול של שיר לשמח בהם; הגה: ויש אומרים דוקא מי שרגיל בהם, כגון המלכים שעומדים ושוכבים בכלי שיר (יב) ח או בבית המשתה (טור), ואסור לשומעם מפני החורבן; (יג) ואפילו שיר ט בפה על היין, אסורה שנאמר: בשיר לא ישתו יין (ישעיה כד, ט) וכבר נהגו כל ישראל לומר (יד) י דברי תשבחות או שיר של הודאות (טו) וזכרון חסדי הקדוש ברוך הוא, על היין. הגה: וכן לצורך מצוה, כגון, בבית יא <ה> חתן וכלה, (טז) הכל שרי (תוספות וסמ"ג והגהות מיימוני).

By SAM on 2009 04 27

The fact remains that that a perusal of the Sugya of Zimra and the attendant poskim and of the sugya in Chelek does not necessarily lead to a ban on taped music in a non-alcohol setting. This was Reb Moshe’s understanding of the sugya but not shared by contemporary poskim. If there was no ban to begin with, their is no reason to be more machmir on it at certain times.

By Al on 2009 04 27

"There are those who don’t make Shecheyanu or wear new clothes during Sefirah. This seems to be an idea that was borrowed (perhaps inadvertently) from the three weeks and has no solid Halachic basis.”

See Yosef Ometz p. 186, and Sefer Minhag Tov siman 61.

By moshe on 2009 04 27

Perhaps Rabbi Haber in the spirit of ddoing it right you can give us a plan as what to do during sefira,how to maxmize these days for growth?

By marv on 2009 04 29

Marv,
For that we have Sefiros, available from TorahLab, on the front page of the site under Torahlab Books

By TorahLab on 2009 04 29

Loved this piece (and all your halacha pieces!

For more on music during sefira, including more liberal approaches, see Rav Aryeh Lebowitz at: http://www.bknw.org/library/articles/miscellaneous/Music%20during%20Sefirah.pdf

Regards!

Ari Enkin

By Ari Enkin on 2009 05 08

It seems clear from his language and context that The Aruch haShulchan is only referring to dancing and musical instruments at a Seudah, which by definition is more of a happy occasion . The music then enhances the happy nature of the seudas mitzva or seudas reshus (which lacks the Mitzva justification of the seudas mitzva, hence the kal vachomer.) . It also has the added chumra of the gezeira of “beshir al yishtu yayin” acc to the shitos that this only applies to a seuda.

As such, bringing this as a source for a general ban on listening to music in any setting other than a Seudah seem to tme completely unjustifiable.

Gut Moed.
Yoni Isaacson

ערוך השולחן אורח חיים הלכות פסח סימן תצג

סעיף ב
ולפיכך נהגו כל ישראל מימות הגאונים שלא לישא אשה בין פסח לעצרת ולא חילקו בין נשואין דמצוה כגון מי שלא קיים עדיין פריה ורביה אם לאו ואע"ג דבאבלות גמורה יש חילוקים מ"מ בכאן החמירו על עצמן ומ"מ מי שקפץ וכנס אין עונשין אותו כיון שעשה מצוה וכ"ש כשראה שיכול השידוך להתבטל אבל לארס ולקדש שפיר דמי וכן אצלנו לעשות שידוכים ולכתוב תנאים מותר שמא יקדמנו אחר ומותר לעשות סעודה אך לא בריקודין ומחולות וכ"ש שאסור לזמר בכלי זמר וכן סעודת הרשות מותר כמו סעודות מריעות ובלבד בלא ריקודין ומחולות:

By Yoni Isaacson on 2013 03 31

Yoni,
You make a good point. The Magen Avraham, whom the Aruch Hashulchan is quoting, is also talking about in the context of the seudah.
It can be understood differently: Generally music is forbidden, as I explained in the article, and more so in the comments. Even in a context which music is usually permitted, such as at a seudas mitzvah, the Magen Avraham is telling us not to dance due to sefira, and the Aruch Hashulchan is adding music. One can infer that in all other contexts, outside of a mitzvah its entirely forbidden.

By Tzvi Haber on 2013 03 31

Tzvi:
This logic only works if you assume that we Paskan like the Rambam and other Machmirim, like Rav Moshe does in theory (though he seems to admit noone else does.)

According to the minhag haOlam, as per the famous Tzitz Eliezer, we rule like Rashi, tosfos, and the Rema that the Issur is Only “Al haYayin etc"- and in that context, the Aruch hashulchan and Magein Avrohom must be understood as being DAVKA at a Seuda.

I think that one has to admit that there is really NO primary source for the common misconception that listening to music outside of a Seudah during Sefiro is Ossur, and more and more people today are beginning to realize and admit this.

As kids in South Africa, we were even told not to go to movies- SUCH IGNORANCE- I tell students they can go to any movie that is MUTAR during the year (which may or may not be a NULL Set.)

By yoni Isaacson on 2013 03 31

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