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"Israel Independence Day" - Comments

1 Conrad Adelman on 2008 05 06

As I read your comments regarding 30,000 voices acknowledging H’m, I found myself crying with tears of joy.
Thank you for sharing that.
Tzvi

2 Fred on 2008 05 06

Yet, without the more “muscular” jew that the zionists envisioned, would there even be a state of Israel today? Without the secular jews, who would defend the state?

3 b-i-l on 2008 05 06

Re #2: this is something that Rabbi Wein has mentioned in the past, along the lines of “careful what you wish for”. For those who say they want a frum government, they need to think through the whole issue. It is beyond complex on how a government could be run in a totally frum manner. With the present setup it would seem impossible unless all the branches of the government were frum.

Look, I got despondent about the state of the Israeli culture and government leniancies. The State of Israel seems to be following in the 7 nations of Canaan footsteps, and I wonder (and worry) about when Eretz Yisroel will spit out the Jews. But there is something to be said for the part of the government that does provide some shelter and assistance to the many frum Jews and Yeshivos.

Happy 60th!

4 JS on 2008 05 06

I usually never post any comments, however Fred’s comments (past & current) begged for a response. A lot of positive actions are currently in play, however what if the State of Israel is causing a tremendous Charon Af?? Why should the Holy Land be known as the number one importer of prostitution?? Is it the ‘muscular / secular Jew’ who’s defending Israel?? Blasphemy!! If all the G-d fearing Jews would leave Israel today, I doubt Israel would exist. Kochi B’Yudi??!?? Chas V’Sholom!! I don’t claim to have the answer, except to daven that Hashem have mercy on us and continue to shield us and send Moshiach speedily so that he can sort out this mess....

5 Fred on 2008 05 07

JS - Before you worry if the State of Israel is causing a Charon Af, remember the topic, which is how the State of Israel came to be and how it is being defended. Why bring up that we are the number one importer of prostitution? Of all things, why would you be so concerned about that? I doubt that anyone is even aware of this, except, apparently, for you.
It would be wonderful if everyone was frum and the government was run by frum people. But until yeshiva boys fly the jets or drive the tanks, that will never be. We should appreciate the sacrifices of those who do and honor them, not deride them.

6 SBA on 2008 05 07

Umipnei Chatoeinu galinu me’artzenu.
That’s what we should all remember - and be concerned about.

7 JS on 2008 05 07

What if the whole creation of the State of Israel created a Charon Af and more Anti-Semitisim? What about the shalosh shevous? If the Zionist policies was only 1% wrong and it caused Jewish bloodshed - are you willing to take responsibility for those actions before our Creator?!? Why bring up prostitution? Did you forget the Torah says that if we make the Land impure - it will spit us out!! BTW, my information comes from ABC news and 20/20 who mind you reported it with glee. Apparently, you don’t know what the saying goes with regards to ‘assumptions’. I will not reply to any more comments since I have to much respect for Rabbi Haber to turn this into a hateful post.

8 Conrad Adelman on 2008 05 07

How strange to read your comments. Should I conclude that of the 30,000 praising the name of H’m, the group was comprised of only one kind of Jew? Or, rather, was it not an example of the Lulav.

9 JS on 2008 05 07

Conrad;
Rabbi Haber stated that he heard it while he was sitting in the sukka - I’ll be dan l’kaf zechus and ‘assume’ that it was chol ha’moad. However, if they sang this song on Yom Tov - no disrespect to Rabbi Haber - would that make it beautiful? Is that how we love Hashem - by being mechallel Yom Tov? I love every yid and won’t judge them since I’m far from perfect - yet if I sin against G-d - I’ll have to account for that, however I’m not actively trying to uproot Judaism. That being said, I’ll revert to the mishan in avos - seyug l’chochma beshtika

10 Sender on 2008 05 07

As Rabbi Haber’s beautiful essay pointed out, the existence of opposite extremes is the enigma that is present day Israel. Regardless of previous Charon Af, perhaps a we have embarked on a national trip toward Kedusha. Hop aboard and have a little patience.

11 Holly Wolf on 2008 08 01

Dear Rabbi Haber,

Thank you for your remarks - it is often the intertwining of the secular and the sacred that gets overlooked. Yes, at soccer games and Knesset debates, the truth will out as we heal and grow.

May we all look and see the remarkable changes taking place around us - the miracles of Hashem are happening every moment as HaKodosh Boruch Hu breathes life into this world -

Thanks again -

Holly Wolf

12 Aryeh Shore on 2008 08 01

This Yom Azmaut has been a particularly satifying one. There is a general feeling that everything the first generation started out to do, reestablish our institutions from the remnant of the Shoah (nearly all of the Israel Prize recipients were Nitzulai Shoah), gathered in the persecuted Jews of the world and created an infrastructure where anyone would want to live. The question asked is what to do now. How will the fouth generation define themselves when they receive as given what to previous generations thought of as only an impossible dream? Stick around. It certainly will be an interesting story.
As for secularism, the overwhelming majority of the Jews in Israel define themselves as traditional or religious. The lack of more religious identification is do more to the behavior of the religious community than any Marxist propaganda. This certainly is better than the situation in Europe in the 19th century where millions of Jews totally assimilated and many became Christians. The idyllic Jewish world that some people expect never existed. Israel is the closest your are going to get to it in our times.

13 Gavriel Silverstein on 2008 08 01

Yes, Yaccov, I do believe it is darkest before the dawn, but unfortunately, the light on the horizon is not the eminent rising of the sun...it’s headlights, and they are coming for Israel. I think I agree with everything you said but for one comment - we have not bottomed out, nor close to it yet. Remember, there is only going to be remant left when Mochiach comes, not stadiums full of happy secular Jews who want to call themselves “traditional” and believe that cuts it with HaShem. Torah and the rest of Tanakh dwell on this point over and over relentlessly, but it is summed up in the words we speak every morning and every evening: Love HaShem your G-d with all your heart and all your soul and all your substance. Singing a song to HaShem at a soccer game doesn’t exactly qualify.

14 Aryeh Shore on 2008 08 01

That they say they are traditional means that they observe mitzvot and if given the correct atmosphere they will be happy to do more mitzvot. This is a lot different than secularism or anti-religious. I am not sure how to define people who put on tephillin every morning but do not wear a kippah or go to shul but I’ve met many of them. Or Soccer players who have a shul in the stadium so they can read the torah before going out to play on Shabbat. I also don’t know how to define people who wear black hats and black coats who sincerely believe what they are doing is Torah while it looks to me like Chilul HaShem.(That is after having read all those books like the Talmud and Shulchan Aruch.) But then I am not in charge nor would I think of telling anyone my way of doing things is the only correct way.
I repeat the saying of Chazal, Anyone who lives in Israel, speaks Hebrew and says the Shema is assured a place in the world to come. I guess one could argue that the Beter cheer may or not count for saying declaring the kingdom of Hashem.

15 Yaacov Haber on 2008 08 01

Gabriel,
If you think that the ‘stadium Jews’ are just being smug and trying to get by with very little I believe you are wrong. Most of them have been deprived of a good Jewish education or an atmosphere of Torah. That they have any expression of Yiddishkeit is a miracle and can be understood only as a deep expression of their nehamos calling out to Hashem. The Jews in Egypt also went down 49 levels of Tumah but Hashem looked at the 3 most superficial aspects of Judaism and said “I will give them the Torah”.

Yaacov Haber

16 Gavriel Silverstein on 2008 08 01

Unfortunately, as feel good as the saying of Chazal is, it is completely against Torah’s message. If they would made it that far, Dathan and Abiram would have qualified (some would argue that’s why they didn’t but those would missed the point). As for having a shul in a stadium to convince oneself that HaShem has any interest in hearing the “prayers” of those who are going to immediately go outside and engage in a practice that is contrary to Torah - and on Shabbos no less? (does anyone think there could ever be something in Paradise that involves someone being a winner and someone else being a loser?!).

I am not aware of any requirement of a Jewish education to serve HaShem. In my limited learning I have never seen that note in Torah or anywhere else in Tanakh, so I guess HaShem doesn’t require that as a prerequisite. I believe that knowing the end before He created the beginning, that HaShem created Torah such that it can be read by a lone man on a desert island and with a heart for G-d he could be a true tzaddik.

17 Rabbi Joshua Waxman on 2008 08 01

There is surely Torah shebaal Peh?!

18 Menachem Carroll on 2009 04 29

Yaashar Koah to the readers who acknowledge the good side of all Israelis, even the soccer stadium Jews.  Let’s remember:  The most secular and confused young Israelis serve in the IDF, which inherently means they are saving Jewish lives, a huge mitzvah.  The Israeli who does things (s)he shouldn’t on Shabbat may well save the life of a Ben Torah on Sunday.

19 Gavriel on 2010 04 15

Puerto Rico or Denmark? There’s nothing more Jewish than assimilation.

20 ZL on 2012 04 20

dear rabbi haber- excellent article on iseael independence day! yashar kochacha-zev leff

21 simche on 2012 05 04

as mention in the gemara in sanhedrin the sign for redemption is that the land gives its fruit in bounty It is common mistake to think that Herzl or Nordau create the state instead of acknowledging that Hashem created the state of Israel as part of his promise to return the Jews to their land If the FRum people would have heed to the call of the Gedolim to return to Israel things would have different The “frumer” yidden did not have the praciical means to create but G=d’s will had to come into existence Something is happening that people are realizing we the religious must santify the mundune stop complaining and start changing

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